The most important thing is to get alignment across the organization about the things that matter most right now we know that it's we like to say AI is not going to replace lawyers, but AI lawyers who are really good at AI are going to kick the crap out of lawyers who aren't that's just a fact. And so for large law firms who may be older and successful, don't let your success be an impediment to adopting new ways of thinking and new technology. And my suggestion with again, AI, would be, first of all, you're already using this in many ways, and so start to think about, okay, if I could wave a magic wand and improve three things, I can prove, intake, the way we respond to email, and planning whatever that is, start there, but make sure everybody in the organization is on board with what you're trying to do, create pain, a vision, and then who, what, where, when, most importantly, why. If you can explain to your people, this is who, this is what, this is where, this is when we're going to do it, and this is why we're doing it. Anybody have any questions, and then get buy in, and it'll be transformational across the organization, if you follow that and don't try to jam stuff down people's throat, right, just say, we're not just going to do this, to do it, and don't buy stuff that you're not going to use, because it only creates more problems.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time this podcast finds you. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of Internet Marketing for Law Firms podcast. Great guest today. You guys know the rules. There is no ads on this podcast, except one mention I make at the start, which is, if you like the show, listen to the end if it's your first time, and if Tim and I share some great information, please share it with someone who you think could benefit from this podcast and like it, subscribe to it, share it, etc. So without further ado. Tim Sawyer from Faster Outcomes, welcome to the 10 golden rules podcast. Really

appreciate being here today, Jay. I am psyched to have this conversation, and super psyched, by the way, to have met you at the tgr conference, which was my absolute favorite conference of the year so far, and appreciate it. Oh, that's

awesome. Yeah, we're new friends. Tim was actually one of the sponsors at tgr Live, which is 10 golden rules growth strategies for law firms, event, which we just held in Delray Beach. And how were we introduced? Like, how did you guys find out about the show

teach. My marketing director found you on Google. We reached out, looked at the reviews. Everything looked amazing, and was our first time going so you never know what to expect, but from the people that your team, the way they greeted us, the way they helped us get set up, the way and I will say one of the coolest things that you guys did, that I almost didn't do, and I'm so glad I did, was speed networking. So I had never seen that where you line up 50 chairs, for those who don't know, you line up 50 chairs, and bunch of people sit this way, a bunch of people sit this way, and you get 90 seconds to do your thing, and then they move to the next one. Any vendor who goes to a show knows the hardest thing is to meet people, to actually meet a lawyer who wants to talk and engage. And I was just so grateful because you forced us to get together right now the vendors gotta go sit there and power through the uncomfort and discomfort and all that. But I walked away with three cards from that, and super psyched. And then the other thing that you guys did, that I was super grateful for, and I walked into it by accident. Was this lunch Power Hour. I'd never seen that either, so I got my lunch. You This is so funny. I got my lunch sat down at a table. There was nobody else. And of course, I'm a vendor, so I'm thinking, hopefully somebody sits there. But then all of a sudden, six lawyers sat around me, and this woman comes up and she says, Okay, I'm going to be your moderator for lunch, which I had no clue. And she said we're going to talk about strategic planning. And I'm like, Oh, this will be cool. So we get into this really cool conversation about strategic planning. And when I got my turn to go, it was like, we're a little different. We're a tech startup. This is one of many that I've done it. We kind of align ourselves with selling the business someday. So our strategic planning is different. And then that sparked a great conversation, where she's that's a really good point, and then this guy next to me says, I should be doing that in my law firm. Why should I run my law firm like it's going to live in perpetuity, when I should be managing towards an outcome? He and I started talking. Long story short, he now will go by my new customer, who we signed after tgr, so we walked away with contracts. Friends couldn't be happier about it.

Thank you. Thank you. I've obviously go to a bunch of conferences as a speaker or an attendee, and one of the things that's really hard the first time you come to conference is you don't know anybody, and everybody else seems to be in these little clicks and. It's really hard to break through. So the first thing we did before the first break is that speed networking lined everybody up and everybody at first, I don't want to network, and then immediately, once we started, the volume and the energy in the room exploded, and I couldn't get people to move from these little conversations. And then we went into the first break. Now, if you're a newbie at the conference, now you had someone you knew and someone to talk to, and nobody felt uncomfortable. And then, before lunch, just a couple hours later, after the next speaker, we did the second annual World Champion rock paper scissors, and everybody had to play off against each other for rock paper scissors, and the final two ended up on stage. We're looking for those interaction points the networking. We wanted to make it more natural for the vendors interact with the attorneys. We asked the vendors, it's good not everybody with the attorneys, because we all hate a lot of times I'm at conferences where the vendors are pitching me. You don't want to be like sold to. You'd rather network and meet everybody. We had a couple cocktail parties. So when we start talking about the 10 golden rules conference next year, please note that we'll make it great for everybody. There'll be a lot of fun. It's down on the beach, down here in South Florida. Next morning,

my team will be there. We will be there. All

right, so we skipped ahead on the good stuff. Tim, you have an amazing journey. You sold a couple companies. You started an incredible new AI company for law firms. Tell us a little bit about your journey and how you ended up with this amazing AI product, faster outcomes.

fantastic. So talk a little bit about how the product works and what it does for the firms.

Yeah, so there's different personas that would use our product. So for example, personal injury, there's a few companies that do what we do. We have a platform, although ours is more advanced, we have a platform that allows the user, the personal injury lawyer, paralegal, legal assistant, to upload documents, and it's. And as they upload those documents, they'll create an executive summary, take a photo of the document so it has ocular character recognition, so you can upload photos and images that type of thing. So create a case summary, case timeline, key points of the case. And they would also that's where they're going to upload all their medical records. Once we have all that information uploaded, then the user just hits generate demand, and then within 24 to 48 hours, we will send them a world class demand ready to be reviewed and sent off to the insurance company. We use human in the middle. So that means 80% is machine. 10% is our legal team. 10% is their review. The key distinction with that is the ability to chat with those documents. So you've got a portal that's living, breathing, you can talk, you can interrogate your documents, particularly as we think about medcrons, right? Medcrons are medical chronologies that we use. They can get very long and they can get very painful to review. And if you're a litigator, you have to review them multiple times. So we upload the med cons into the platform, and then they have the ability to chat with those documents, which is really important, if you're looking for one visit or one prescription. And then, real quick, our knowledge based product, which appeals to healthcare, family law, it's really appealing to is the ability to take all of the firm's intellectual property, going back to inception, decades of work, all their forms, templates, research, M and a due diligence, whatever they've done, communication with clients, putting it to a single, non contaminated, standalone AI instance, that becomes a functional law partner. They can chat with that information, pull up a clause, never get lost again. And think about if you said, Man, if I could just have my own AI. It's just all my stuff, everything, every speech I've given, we provide that. And then there's a lot we were talking. There's a lot of brain sharing that goes on in that because every law firm functions differently. You might have a large, for example, family law firm that really uses a case manager. We've got other large law firms that have no case management software and files are all over the place, and it's one of the things we do. Is the biggest thing is help people find their data, because it's everywhere, and then get it into a central repository. And that becomes transformative, really, because at this point, Jay, there's not a lot, there's not a lot of business processes within the legal system that cannot be automated with an agent, an AI agent, and in most cases, the agent can learn quickly and do it better.

Yeah, you mentioned that it's a little bit of a generational thing. Like I can imagine if I could upload 20 years of 10 golden rules like you said, meetings and speeches and website SEO and everything we've done, and client results and things like that, and answer questions for my staff. That would be amazing, because one of the things that I spent a lot of time doing is answering questions, and almost every time we've done it before. Now we're 22 years into this business. Yeah, almost every question I have an answer, and I have two or three case studies where we tried this didn't work. We tried this at work. We tried this three more times it worked. Like, here's what to tell the client we're going to do. So is that the kind

of solution? Yeah. So you just hit the nail, right? What you just said is very prophetic, and the first thing you should do is do that. So what I mean by that is we have a use case now in a large law firm. The founder, the rain maker, the guy who brought in all the money he's got 40 years worth of his body of work spans four decades, right? Yeah, there's 12 lawyers in the firm. Do you think anybody does anything without asking Jeff? No, everything goes back. Can I just talk to Jeff for a minute? So we're creating Ask Jeff, and we're going to take all his work and put it into one location. Think about this. There was a survey that just an article that just came out based on a survey that talked about some of the most important things to mid law, mid sized law firms and outside of AI in general, succession planning for sustainable growth is really high on the minds of most lawyers. They're not good at it. It's an aging population. As most lawyers are over 40, we're not replacing at the rate that they're retiring, and that's a problem. So succession planning is so perfect for AI, for the exact reason you just said, Imagine if you took Jay all of that it's just go find out where it is. Scam. Whatever you do, upload it into a single instance, your team would be amazed. And when you onboard, once you break and remember, you can chat so they could say, Jay, this customer is nervous because their three month, 90 day SEO report shows a hiccup at day 45 what would you say? And it would go, this is how Jay has responded every time to that question. And it really becomes like functional, right? That's where. People I think are missing. Could it

work for us as well, or is it really designed for law firms? At this point, knowledge,

our product that's called knowledge, will be a disruption in every industry. Medical, you could absolutely use it in medical professional services we're working on right now.

Look, sign me up for the beta. I want ask. I We won't forget this

even like little things like you and I were business partners, we get in a fight, and I think you stole money from me. Okay, sure, we'll create an agent who starts with your bank records, your credit cards, your voting rights, and it'll go look for the money. That's the level of agentic frameworks that you can develop. Now you have to pick the ones you want to be amazing at. But yeah, the idea that every I said I'm going to do it for my grandparents, I mean, my mom and dad, who are still alive, I want to do it with them. I want to capture all their information and keep that in perpetuity. I think it's the coolest thing in the world. That's

awesome. Now, one of the things you shared with me. I don't know if you want to share this, so we can edit this part out if you don't. But you said there's three words that you like to share in your presentations. Is that something you want to share and talk about what the law firm should be doing? Yeah,

would. And so for context, I've been at the tail end of automotive, been in mortgage insurance, financial services, elective medicine, plastic surgeons, cosmetic dermatologists, I mentioned, and now the law. And at the end of the day, we use three words across all those industries to help people break down their business. We have to these are businesses. They're not nonprofit, right? They need to do three things, and we can change the phrasing, but up to this point, it was, you need to find, increase the quantity and quality of traffic to your website and phone, drive more people to your business. We all have to do that, and then we have to serve, but we also have to increase conversion. So it's find, serve, right? And then under increased conversion, it's talk tracks, analyzing call sentiment. It's frequently asked questions. It's looking at case results, and all of that can be done with training and AI right notebook, I saw a great presentation at tgr about how to use notebook. I was like, Oh, I didn't even realize that. Was like, wow. So all that the serve slash convert piece can be handled with AI, and then for most businesses, and it can be different for some law firms, is retention. But retention can mean a lot of things to me in a large pi firm, because that's mostly your listeners. It would be reputation management, right? So how am I using AI to track successful outcomes where the client was happy to get a review, to get a referral, and then feed that back into my system, and then, foundationally, at the center of all that is the institution or the lawyer itself, and the only way this stuff works, so it's find, serve or sell, and then keep or retain or grow, right? And then it's, what are the people? What are the roles of the people? Process and tools we need in each one of those buckets. And then at the middle of it is the role of leadership and alignment, because you can buy, as law firms, buy a lot of technology, they buy a lot of products, and if you talk to them, they'll be like, that product sucks, or that product sucks. And I know that some cases, the product might not meet the moment. Usually it's onboarding, training, execution, implementation, and there wasn't enough, and then buy it. And did I introduce it to my team in the right way, or did I say, Hey, this is what we're freaking doing. Shut up and do it. Let's, of course, they're going to go, that sucks, because that just gives them more work. So if you think about those three buckets, we got to get more people to the business, we got to convert more of them. We got to keep them, get retention, and then in the middle, we have to lead. And if you do that, well,

you have no business. Yeah, no, you're right. The keep is so important, and I just want to touch on it for a minute, because you said, like the personal injury, like, some guys will probably turn off and say, we keep most of the clients we want. But you know, they occasionally the personal injury guys lose a great case. So you've got to service that client. We have proceed status on the stage at tgr live, and there's a couple products that do a great job informing the client on the status of their case. Yes, your MRI has been sent to the doctor, and we're going to get back to you within a couple days with his read on your MRI. If the client is fed that information automatically, they don't have to wonder what the status of their case is, and then they're much happier. They're much more likely to leave a five star review, and they're much more likely to give you referrals. And that carries on through every business, obviously, and I always say, think of your business like. A five star resort where you give concierge service the minute you walk into a four seasons or a any kind of five star hotel, it's Welcome. Mr. Berkowitz, so we're so happy to see you. Receptions right over here. When you get there, Mr. Berkowitz, your room's ready. We've got your credit card on file. Everything's easy, right? And you get some luggage is already there, but throughout the entire visit, the restaurants are great, the facility is great, the gym is great. Everything's clean, right? So there's no way they're not getting a five star review. So I always say that you want to think of running your law firm in the same map if you want those five star reviews, guess what? We need them today, because they're mission critical for your SEO results, for your Google Maps results, for your service ad results. So I'm selfishly preaching the key, keeping customers happy. Because so many times the client thinks our job is just as Yeah, our job together in marketing and selling the firm is just about getting more leads. But it's not. It's so key. Like you said, more traffic to the website, more high quality traffic. Then convert. Super important, your intakes gotta be working. And every lawyer will tell you it's working till you listen to a few phone calls. And guess what? Which most people don't want to do. So many people miss phone calls, leave people on hold till they hang up. Like it's scary when we start listening to phone calls and then obviously the five star concierge service, 100% on the you

know what I like to do. And I've got an interesting conversation tgr about this was the idea of, and this is a principle, particularly as a tech startup guy, is we always have to act like our businesses for sale, and particularly when they're leaders, Jay, like you and I, we're running the businesses, right? There are businesses we own equity in them. They're ours, and so we need an avatar to help manage ourselves, right? So if you say, okay, my boogeyman, my avatar, what is Who would I sell this business to? How much do I want to get for it, and what would they be concerned about? And if you're honest enough with yourself, you have enough self esteem to say, we screw up. We're not good at this, we're definitely not good at this. We're definitely not good at that. And you can objectively evaluate your business and be your own critic, your best, your worst critic, and saying, if I was going to buy Tim's business right now, I wouldn't buy it because I'm concerned about retention. I'm concerned about I looked at their ABC case files, their C's are huge compared to their B's. Like, you gotta analyze that stuff and look at it from an investor, and then say, okay, the investor wants these 10 things, and these are the KPIs attached to those 10 things. And then you gotta manage to that. And I think anybody that with an entrepreneur bent, and most lawyers do. Most lawyers do. That's how they have to train their brain, right? Okay, if I wanted to sell this someday. And of course, there is a lot of, by the way, there's a lot of to the extent that you can with lawyers, non lawyers owning law firms. When there's states that a non Oregon own a law firm, they're going to scoop those law firms up, right? Just like small medical practices, small and they're going to aggregate those, and then you're going to see private equity into law, because that's only the way it always happens for everybody.

Yeah, yeah. It's definitely started to just sneak into the equation. Aboriginal questions that I love to ask someone with your level of expertise, and you've had a couple of successful businesses, and the chair you and I sit in as a consultant, we get to see into businesses, and it's very easy to see what works, what doesn't work. We just talked about some of the key elements. But what's a recommendation you would have for someone who's just starting out? Maybe you're a smart lawyer. You just broke away from a big firm. You're starting your own thing. What's one business piece of advice you would give to that young startup?

I would begin with the end in mind and ask yourself, what do I want this business to look like in one year? And start there in terms of customer count. So think about your world, right? The first thing they need to do is have a budget for marketing. Doesn't matter what type of law if they're going out on their own, or even if, I guess, if in a larger law firm, how are they going to brand themselves? How are they going to differentiate themselves? What is their purpose and nail that, right? Sit and Go. You know what is going to make me different? Why should any client choose me? And then how am I going to get them? And then talk to someone like you or your firm and say, Hey, I'm just getting going. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Don't try to figure out marketing on your own. Marketing is going to be the lifeblood of your business, particularly in personal injury. It always will be. Look at these mastermind groups, how much time and energy they spend on marketing, and they all go to you eventually, right some level. So where do you want to be in a year? What's Yeah, hopefully. So where do you want to be in a year? And then sit down and ask yourself, what makes me different?

That's a great question mark. Write that out. A lot about branding. You don't need to be like Morgan, right? No, what you need to do is figure out who you are, what makes you different, and by the way, you can change it after a year, but stick to one message, because you have limited times to communicate that message. But if a customer sees your social media post and then comes to your website and then calls the firm, that experience should be incredibly consistent and should pay off that one consistent brand message, because you don't have the money to compete with the big bucks guys in your market, but you do have the opportunity to be consistent with your message. Yeah,

That's what advice. That's the budget you have. I'd spend it all on coffees. Do a lot of one to ones. So same question now for the bigger firm, for 100 cases a month, 100 new clients a month, depending on your practice, what one piece of advice would you give you know as the expert who's looked into a lot of firms.

So the one piece I wrote this down, the most important thing is to get alignment across the organization about the things that matter most. Right now we know that it's we like to say AI is not going to replace lawyers, but AI lawyers who are really good at AI are going to kick the crap out of lawyers who aren't. That's just a fact. And so for large law firms who may be older and successful, don't let your success be an impediment to adopting new ways of thinking and new technology. And my suggestion with again, AI, would be, first of all, you're already using this in many ways, and so start to think about, okay, if I could wave a magic wand and improve three things I can prove intake, the way we respond to email and planning whatever that is, start there, but make sure everybody in the organization is on board with what you're trying to do. Create pain, a vision, and then who, what, where, when, most importantly, why, if you can explain to your people, this is who, this is what, this is where, this when we're going to do it, and this is why we're doing it. Anybody have any questions, and then get buy in, and it'll be transformational across the organization. If you follow that, and don't try to jam stuff down people's throat, right? Just say we're not just going to do this, to do it, and don't buy stuff that you're not going to use, because it only creates more problems.

I love it. You've probably listened to a couple of our podcasts, but if you haven't, gonna have to be on your toes, because this is the quick snapper section of the Golden Rules podcast, and we just want quick one liner answers to these. First one, any apps or techniques you use for personal productivity?

Chat? GPT.

Give us a quick example how to use it.

I would never write a complicated email without at least passing it through chat GPT.

Here's a pro tip. I wrote an article today using chat GPT. I went to my one of my webinars, where I explained something in great detail for 15 minutes. Yep, there's a transcription already on YouTube. I copied and pasted it into chat GPT. I wrote a really good prompt. I said, author Jay Berkowitz is going to write an article on this topic. Saved me about four hours, and the article was darn good. It only took me about 15 minutes to edit it, and it's awesome, and it's coming soon to a legal magazine. Game Changer. Mention any names so they think I wrote it in chat. GPT. Now, obviously there was probably about 40 hours creating that presentation. So I did the work. I just didn't do the typing. Yeah, smart. Do you have a personal wellness and fitness routine? I

do actually part of my life. I spent 10 years in the elective medicine community. I was 265, pounds, I don't mind admitting that, and met someone who had enough courage to say to me, You look awful and you take care of yourself. He was an integrative and functional medicine guy, and so. I actually ended up investing in an own part of an integrated functional medicine clinic. Keep my hormones right. That's really important. Lost a lot of weight, which is great, trying to eat better. I have a workout routine. Try to get in my basement at least three times a week, and I do an hour on the treadmill, 4.2 miles an hour, 1.5 incline weights. Awesome. And then I ocean swim. I live on the ocean, and I go in the winter two times a week. Now,

here's a question we've never asked on the 10 golden rules podcast, and I know the answer. Do you have a personal pub?

I actually, I'm sitting in a personal pup.

We have to pay that one off that's got it's got

cork ceilings for sound suppression. It's got a bar. Billiards, got darts. We everything that we need to have fun,

and why the Tom Brady shrine.

So I'm from New England, and I've been a everything from a season ticket holder to a luxury box holder to not going a lot of games right now, because I'm working a ton at least coming up. I up. Just love the Patriots. Love Tom Brady's 20 year run, and most of the moments that I have on the walls, I was at the game. So that's great. Been to a couple of Super Bowls. And yeah, how do the Pats look for this year, statistically, they're supposed to win eight games. And last year they predicted they would win three. They won three. If the Patriots win eight games this year, amen, they

picked like third or fourth, right? So that first round picks back? Yep, they should do. We'll see. We're going to find out like they've got their quarterback, so we'll see. Yep, and I like

Mike Grabel, but I watched a lot of games with Mike Grable, now that he's coached and as their former linebacker. So that

should be a good fit. Best business books.

Best business books. This will blow your mind. It's not a business book, although I just recently had recommended to my CEO, who plowed through it in a weekend book called Sapiens, which is a brief history of humankind from faith religious aside, doesn't it's a it's a book about evolution, and it takes us from the Stone Age when we fell out of a tree to where society is at now. And there are incredible implications in that book around branding. Talks about how world religions were created. Some of the greatest branding in the world is used in World Religions, how communication system the first communication systems that were set up, and now the third in that series is a book called Nexus, and I'm reading it right now. And Nexus is a history of information systems from the Stone Age to AI and the implications around that bulletproof. They're not small, but they're great, books,

blogs, podcasts and YouTubes, the things you subscribe to, and one hits your feed and you immediately go to

I. I have my own podcast, so I tend to limit and I do a lot of podcasts, so I don't have one that Joe Rogan I like to listen to once in a while. It's cool. YouTube's I'm going to take a little break, I actually, and this will ruin it for the whole podcast. I like tick tock. It's funny. Like you,

right? You just as you scroll through it, it's interesting. And

now it's dialed in on what I want to get served up, yep, so I can get a lot of information and good feelings in 15 minutes. And then I like the functional medicine stuff. I work with a doctor, so I like YouTube. And what was the other one? YouTube books, that's great. Have you read out live? No, I just

started reading that book. It's a great functional medicine book. There was one guy at the last legal conference who was in phenomenal shape. Every other guy was like, oh shit, I want to figure out what he's doing in the gym. And guess what? He was in the gym for two hours every morning, even if we started at eight o'clock. But he recommended the book outlive so I've just started that, and I'm going back and forth between the NVIDIA way, but I'll put sapiens and Nexus on the to read

rate, and the book in the middle is called Homo Deus.

What's a great introduction for you and for Faster Outcomes? Who should we say? Y'all need to talk to Tim at Faster Outcomes, because you all need

to talk to Tim at Faster Outcomes. Because I do, and this is great. We had this conversation at tgr, the speed networking. People said, what is it that you do? And I said, what I want to do is bring technology to the legal space that allows lawyers to have more time to do more of what they love. If that's smashing their competition, great if that's getting home earlier to help put the kids to bed, that is also a noble goal. That is why you should talk to Tim, because that's all I care about.

Fantastic. And where can they find you

fasteroutcomes.com, just like it sounds, F, A, S, T, E, R, outcomes.com, and you we have the legal keys podcast, relatively new. We'll be having Jay on that soon. We've done four episodes. Start. To take off. Really excited about that, and shows we're traveling, headed to Mississippi tomorrow to do some CLE training with the Association for Justice there. That'll be fun San Diego this month, and then pilma At the end of the month. You'll see what's that?

Yeah, we'll be at pilma too. So I look forward to see you there having maybe one or two beverages. My instincts tell me,

people listen to this podcast will see us more and more often. We're not going anywhere.

Tim, congratulations on getting out of the gate quick. And thank you for a great podcast, and great to get to know you. Thank you so much. So

grateful can't and by the way, can't wait to get back to tgr. Last shout out. Everybody. Watch the testimonial videos from this tgr. I was perfectly honest. Loved it. Highly recommend. Gotta go.

Yeah, some of the content was fantastic, and we're gonna edit it into like, short, five or 10 minute clips and make a lot of the content available from the show. Great watch for that coming soon. Tim, thanks, just look great.

Have a great day. Jay.