Dave Thomas: 00:00:00

marketing's like, like a first date. Right? That first date. If you talk all about yourself on the first day, there won't be a second one. And that's the same thing in marketing, you know, so make it less about you and more about your audience. And that's my my greatest tip that I can give.

Unknown: 00:00:18

Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast, featuring the latest strategies and techniques to drive traffic to your website and convert that traffic into clients. Now, here's the founder and CEO of 10 golden rules, Jay Berkowitz.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:00:39

Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever time you're listening to this podcast. Welcome to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms Podcast coming to you live today from NTL National Trial Lawyers with an awesome guest, Dave Thomas, Mr. Dave, everyone here at the at the conferences one of the most well known exceptional personalities in the lawyer industry. Dave,

Dave Thomas: 00:01:02

welcome, Jay. Thanks for that humble, wonderful introduction.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:01:07

You're the best. So true. Right?

Dave Thomas: 00:01:08

You're the best. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah, we're we're here at National Trial Lawyers 2024. And I'm here with Jay, obviously, from tgr. And then I'm excited.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:01:18

Yeah. So we're going to cover a lot of topics today. But let's talk a little bit about law tigers, what it is why folks should consider law Tiger isn't a good fit. We're going to talk about the live event you guys are doing in Savannah, Georgia, I'll be there. And we're going to talk about tgr live our 10 Golden Rules event in April, April 25 and 26th in both return and you'll be there. Yeah, let's let's start out, you know, first let tell us a little bit about Dave and your background and how you came to law time.

Dave Thomas: 00:01:47

Yeah. So you know, I spent years in total acquisition, as an executive in business development within the healthcare arena. I spent about 17 years doing that, and I had a change of heart and my kind of I call it my second career, I felt a lot longtime student executive search firm. And, and it was, you know, it was a great marriage, they had a huge opportunity, and they wanted to really scale and grow and build and, and we've done just that. I think I've been with all tigers about six years now. And and when I, when I joined, we were like seven markets. And I think we're close to 47 or 48 markets. So we've done some growing and we definitely have some more opportunity to do so.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:02:24

And what what is law tigers, for folks who haven't heard of it? Yeah, so law

Dave Thomas: 00:02:28

tigers. We are a marketing firm that generate high value motorcycle cases, to personal injury firms across the country. We licensed our program, we have a really a great team in place of marketers that really concentrate on traditional advertisement, digital and grassroots. So that Infinity Marketing will, that's how we're able to generate these cases to firms extradited across the country. That's personal injury firms.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:02:53

And thank you so much. We get to do some work with law tigers, and get to work with Dave, and awesome client. And we had an unbelievable case study of our SEO success. But we'll save that for another day. Yeah, so who's a good fit? Like who should be a lot Tiger? You know, what's a good size firm and a good market fit?

Dave Thomas: 00:03:11

Man? That's a good question, a tough question. And the same. And the reason I say that is, I mean, if you're a personal injury firm, you're looking to diversify your practice. Within a niche. We know that there's riches and niches, no pun intended. But if you can niche down into a target audience, which we've done a I feel exceptional job over the last three, four years, of really getting into trust and likability of the writer audience, we're able to to really grow Personal Injury practices in a meaningful, meaningful way. So when you go back to the question of who's a good fit, if you're looking once again, to grow, if you're really interested in serious injury cases, if you're if you're litigator that's really, you know, take on insurance companies, were a great fit. And so I'd love to hear from you.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:03:56

Our friend or shared friend Paul Hernandez, yes, perhaps a good example, Paul is great guy Kalfus and najman, based in Virginia, and Paul's a lot Tiger. And you know what one thing he told me is he stuck with it for three, four years, working with you guys to build the ground game. And building the ground game is a big part of a lot tighter, right? 100%

Dave Thomas: 00:04:17

Oh, Paul owns Norfolk, Virginia, Maryland, DC, Delaware. He's one of our strongest and greatest advocates and, and you're right, he understands marketing. He understands that you're not it's not going to like spaghetti thrown against the wall. Hopefully that a stick. You have to be committed. Right? You have to be committed, but what you're referring to we have a strong component, which is grassroots. I would, I would argue to say that we're probably one of the best at doing it around the country. And what we've done is we really designed this model for writers to really focus on the writing community. And so our market managers he or she, they go around town in the community, winning friends and influencing people. They call on dealership parks. Doors, tow companies interact, you know, different Association rallies. It's really like

Jay Berkowitz: 00:05:06

biker bars, you know? Yeah, those relationships 100%. I mean, they're at the rallies and the bike and the charity poker run. And the riders generally, you're hiring in market market managers. You know, I was like, early in my career, actually, my first full time job was with an ad agency, and we worked with McDonald's restaurants. And then I moved to the head office of McDonald's. And I worked actually, my office was right next to a guy some of you might have heard of, and this is a true story. The next office to me was Ronald McDonald. And Ronald McDonald used to organize you know, the whole Ronald McDonald program, they called it where, you know, Hamburglar and, and all the other characters would could go out to like local fairs and new store openings and store anniversaries. And of course, you know, it was a really big, you know, like the town parade or something. Ronald McDonald himself would make an appearance. And, you know, I think, for the way I explained Lodge, I just, I don't know if I ever told you this go to folks. It's like, it's a little bit like McDonald's. So let's say you're an attorney in town, and you own a steak restaurant, and you want to diversify, and maybe you get a franchise, so you get a pizza place, or, or like McDonald's. Sure. And McDonald's got Ronald McDonald. And you guys have tanked the talk? Yeah. Do we have a very similar marketing model? Right, like, McDonald's had great what I call ground game? Yes. You know, they called it CR Rs, community relations representatives. They rent the local fair, they are at the local church picnic. Yeah, they were, you know, at the ribbon cutting for the other businesses and, and like I said, the big events, Ronald McDonald himself would be there. And you guys do the same thing. You're at every, you know, motorcycle. Yeah,

Dave Thomas: 00:06:45

it's a it's a very authentic approach. Che it's, you know, majority of us are writers herself. It's no gimmick. We're not photoshopping ourselves against bikes. You don't have to have your attorney firm. There's a misconception. You don't have to be a writer to join law tigers. In fact, we do all the blocking and tackling for you. That's why that market manager that we're referencing, he or she is the writer than the face of your program. So credibility goes through the roof. As soon as we join in partnership. McDonald's is a great representation. I'd love that comparison. That's pretty cool. I would also use that please. I will, I will. I will. I also believe I do

Jay Berkowitz: 00:07:19

see Toronto, we still

Dave Thomas: 00:07:21

go My name is Dan. I'm a Windows guy. So So yeah, you know, our program is even more so similar to like a Chick fil A or in and out because we know what we do we know what we're good at. And we stay in that box and we don't we don't you know kind of move move out of it. It's like that's all we focus on his motorcycle cases. So we have an incredible nation. And yeah, it's a fun practice and, and motorcycle clients are some of the most loyal clients as a personal injury. There's, they're there, they're so grateful that you can see past some of the misconceptions about them. And so it's just a great it's a great way to grow your practice but also to to help help out what I always referred to as a Cumber, fragmented underserved group.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:08:07

And we've worked together for five years now. And every time I meet one of my buddies, certain networking guy, who's a motorcycle rider asked me if they know lot tigers, and it's like 99% brand awareness, love to hear and I don't even think you're advertising in Boca Raton where I live. So you guys have a great, you know, again, I call it ground game. He thought it was really Yeah. And I think it's the big events where you really stand out Sturgis Daytona, yeah. Talk a little bit about your role of marketing at the big events. Yeah.

Dave Thomas: 00:08:38

So we're at Daytona are some of the largest events across the continent. Sturgis were one of the largest market marketers that they started just for

Jay Berkowitz: 00:08:45

people who don't know, Sturgis this world's biggest bike rally. That is correct. Just South Dakota and the Dakotas baby. Yeah. How many people do they get? How big is how big is the town on a regular weekend? Oh, man. I don't know. I don't want to 10,000 20,000 people very small. How many people go to Sturgis for the right biker? Oh, man. It's it's 1000s Another 20,000? It's 1000s. And so y'all have a big presence there. What typically what do you do it? Yeah, they're just to build the lot Tigers brand. Yeah, well,

Dave Thomas: 00:09:13

we support a lot of the rights that that's there. We don't we're in partnership with a lot of local businesses. We set up our own campgrounds. It's like one big party be honest with you. But it's really you know, if you're an enthusiast or writer enthusiast the place to be like, once again, it's no fake to see what we do. Like we love riders, we watch over our own and, and at the core of what we do is, you know, this was created by a rider for rider to happen to be an attorney, we want to we want to have the best representation for this particular group, right? But we also want to have attorneys that that that care about them and what I mean by that is, you know, not not just trying to make money a quick buck, but really want to, you know, get them back on the road, get them back in the best shape, but also, you know, have A great experience in the process of healing work. So that's what it's all about. It's all about building a positive moment and truthfully, with the writing community, and they call us right away when they go down and fight. And so what we're able to do is partner with law firms and inject that into their firm. And I, you know, I don't I don't brag on some of the results, but we're doing some phenomenal things around the country. We're like in 32 states, and we're still looking for fruit for good firms. So especially here in the state of Florida. It's great opportunities. Yeah, that's

Jay Berkowitz: 00:10:28

right. The South Florida market. I know you've had some dance partners. Yeah, almost got them to the, to the ball. So this would be a great market. And the markets where people ride all year round, you're obviously better than the northern markets, right? Well,

Dave Thomas: 00:10:44

that's interesting, because the riding season, the length of it, and the weather don't really justify our program. Because what happens is, if you're a writer, you're gonna ride if your season is only two or three months, you're gonna ride during that season. And what really justifies our program is how many injuries and fatalities are involving accident in that market, unfortunately, sadly, that's yeah. And so, yeah, it's the business that we're in. And so it happens in three months or six months, that number is not number. And obviously, we need good strong attorneys that's willing to step up to the plate and take care of these riders.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:11:17

And the other thing is riders riders, like, I've been associated in Minneapolis, and he takes a ride with his buddies, sometimes years. So they'll go to California for a couple of weeks. And he'll go somewhere else, Texas, Arizona, Florida, and do it right. So even though the season is short, Minneapolis, great for the riders gonna load their bikes up. I understand there's a lot of services, he put the bikes on a truck, you fly in the open down meet you there.

Dave Thomas: 00:11:44

If you're a writer, you recall whether it's not gonna stop, your snow is not gonna stop, you're right, Jake, they're gonna go to a place where they can ride. The nice thing about our program, it's an exclusive membership. And we actually design it by territory. So so if you're a part of our program, it goes directly tied to the riders, zip code, right? Where they live. And so if they do take their bike and go out to sunny Arizona and unfortunately get an accident, then that case would be routed back to that colder climate state. So yeah, it's really tied to the to the rider. And

Jay Berkowitz: 00:12:19

what are some of the marketing tips like, you know, this is essentially 10 golden rules, Internet Marketing for law firms? I love it. What are some of the marketing tips you've picked up that work best for some of the firm's you all work with? Yeah, so not necessarily law Tiger specifically?

Dave Thomas: 00:12:34

Yeah, so marketing tips, you know, I, I believe in diversifying your marketing, right. A lot of folks, they may say, I'm gonna try digital, I'm going to try traditional, I'm going to try grassroots. But to be honest with you, Jay, I mean, if you can, if you can balance your marketing efforts, because they synergistically they all support one another. It's a shame if I'm going to invest money into digital or traditional advertisement, but not connect with my community. Right? Because they're, you know, they're receiving you in a transactional manner. I always tell marketers, you want to take 10 transactional, and throw it out the window, everything that you do, your marketing should be relational, it's just speak and evoke the emotional connection to your audience. And I always say this to Jay, I noticed a new kind of kind of a silly statement. But marketing is like, I feel it's like a first date. Right? That first date, if you talk all about yourself on the first date, there won't be a second one. And that's the same thing with marketing, you know, so, so make it less about you and more about your audience. And that's my greatest tip that I can I can do.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:13:38

I thought you were using a different analogy, where a lot of people say, you know, on the first date, you can try and go right to the wedding, or the wedding night, you gotta you gotta pace yourself a little bit when you first meet a client in sales. Yeah, we do a lot of business development stuff together, you know, broaden it out to like businesses, and law firms. You know, you're one of the, as I mentioned, one of the most beloved characters in the legal market. But you know, you build relationships, like what are two or three business development tips that you could parlay for, you know, the legal community, and lawyers themselves?

Dave Thomas: 00:14:14

Yeah. So it's when you think of your business, most folks think of how they can get immediate return on their investment part time. But what about, like children's hospitals? What about there's charities that need your support? They're directly tied to individuals that may be your customer or client one day. So step out of the room of your area, it may not even be legal, but just you know, everything is on a big spirit. And

Jay Berkowitz: 00:14:43

is that how you become like, Dave, you're involved in your local hospital and communities? How do you become David get conferences like what's your That's

Dave Thomas: 00:14:51

it? That's it. So even at these conferences, most folks there once again, they're just looking to speak with attorneys and hopefully that they'll buy their product or services. I look at it there. A friend, I don't look actually to come here to sell anything. I just look to establish relationships, open up a relationship with you. And you know and find out what's important to you. And also what's most important are folks like you and you and I 10 golden rules, law tigers, I see many other vendors here. Those are influencers and connectors. They're just as important as attorneys are to me, because those influencers or connectors are going to introduce me to my potential client, and also going to add credibility and say, hey, the nice things you're saying about right now, they're gonna reach out everyone's

Jay Berkowitz: 00:15:31

gonna come to their agencies. What do you think of this laptop? Yeah, so I'm gonna know your game. Otherwise, that's it. You know, we're trusted consultants. Fortunately. That's it. Now, a couple of great events coming up. We want to touch on Yeah. First 110 Golden Rules life. First, let's go with the calendar first. So the first one coming up is the law Tigers event in Savannah, Georgia. Let's get and you guys are in partnership with National Trial Lawyers. Got some awesome speakers already lined up? Yeah. Tell us a little bit about this event? Well,

Dave Thomas: 00:16:02

so this event is taking place March 4 through the seventh in Savannah, Georgia.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:16:06

2024 2020. If you're watching this sometime in 2025. Hopefully there'll be a second annual. But yeah, there will be first annual the real

Dave Thomas: 00:16:15

first animal now this is not just at all tigers event. It's not a selling event. It is put on by national travelers. Yes, national travelers and law Tigers co presented, we're going to have some great content, some of the best speakers, we're going to focus on some of these things on, on how to get more of these cases into your firm, how to better serve the clients and also how to try these cases. So so when you when you come to our event, you're not just going to come in, you know, and just be part of a party, you got to walk away better, you're going to walk away with some golden nuggets that you're going to take back to your firm and help elevate and grow. That's what it's all about. Why

Jay Berkowitz: 00:16:48

Savannah, Georgia, anything fun going on? Oh, man, so

Dave Thomas: 00:16:51

so it's at the JW Marriott water district. So this place is one of the most sought after hotels to stay at. So they have like 14 restaurants. They have ghost tours now. I'm not too much. I'm gonna I'm a big kind of like, you know, hey, hop behind guy.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:17:08

I'm talking about but did you play him?

Dave Thomas: 00:17:10

I just played defense of him and

Jay Berkowitz: 00:17:12

I always surreal dude is a big I'm a big dude. I'm a baby compared to Big Dave. No, but

Dave Thomas: 00:17:20

there are there gonna be some fun things to do boat boat cruises. So yeah. So So bring your bring your family's income enjoy to two great days of great content and to become better as a lawyer as attorney as a litigator.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:17:32

I'm looking forward to that when you guys we've been to the law Tigers member event, but this is this is, you know, an NTL motorcycle event? Yes, yes. And then April 25, and 26th. In Boca, we're doing tgr live. We haven't done an event since before COVID. So we're very excited. It's called growth strategies for law firms is the theme of the event. We're going to do AI in the morning, we've got Dr. Kane Elliot is the AI futurists for file line. And Justin lovely. He's an attorney in South Carolina who does amazing things with AI and his firm. We're gonna do some incredible marketing stuff in the afternoon. We're gonna do the business a lot and niche law in the morning. Now Dave said it, there's riches in the niches. Yes. So Dave's gonna be moderating a panel, and we're gonna have yourself, you're gonna have a brain injury specialist, and a trucking specialist. Awesome. What does that mean riches in the niches Well,

Dave Thomas: 00:18:27

niching down, you know, no matter what industry you serve, you know, your client. They don't want the supermarket of like, for example, in the legal industry, they don't want a super market of legal services. They want that industry experts they want, like, if you hurt your knee, you know, you don't want to go to like a, you know, a family medicine doc, right? Because they're gonna give you some meds and get you to a specialist. So so that's what made it special. Yeah, that's yeah. So when you're niching, down, that's what you're doing. You're saying, Hey, I am the go to firm when it comes to your knees. And the cool thing is, you spend less money because you can, you can actually really target all your marketing efforts towards a specific audience. So you get more with less, but also, you're able to really grow in a meaningful way and help out a specific group.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:19:15

Have you ever had a God when God went? Yeah, no, you have to? You have I know. Yeah. Because you're a man, I know. You're a man of God. You're so I had a god, I call it God wake it up. And I met a guy. And he had an internet marketing agency, you know, like we did, but he only focused on one niche franchises. And I said, Man, it's hard enough to do this, this business, you know, with all the niches, you know, how do you do this? Well, it's great because you get really good at franchises. And then all the franchises were for us, we get more work from the other franchisees. Then I met these guys who built a product called E builder. And it's software and I met them and they're telling me the story of two brothers. And the one brother convinced the other brother, we got to focus on a niche and they saw offers only for construction projects, only one industry in the hospitality. And they sold the business for $360 million. Wow, still the biggest tech success story in here in South Florida, we call it Silicon Beach. And then I met my buddy Josh Nelson from seven figure agency. And he built his plumbing business, only focusing on plumbers. And he's a digital marketing agency for plumbers. And they now have 180 Plumbers they worked with, and it's a multimillion dollar agency. So I looked at it. Okay, this one guy only focuses on niches of franchises, these guys built software to $360 million, only focusing on one industry. And the third guy only focus on plumbers. So that's what I call my Godwin, because I'm like, okay, I get it, you know, three times in a row. And we decided to focus only on lawyers. And since we've only focused on the one niche, you know, there's a lot of benefits that came with it that I didn't realize, first of all, I know what I'm supposed to do, right? Like, I'm not supposed to be at the Affiliate Summit anymore, or search engine strategies. I'm supposed to be National Trial Lawyers, motorcycle Summit. EGR. Live, like get the lawyer cops. Number two, our team super focused, like all we do is we focus on Google, and the four parts of Google do you know, the four parts of Google do not? Number one, local service? That's right at the top of Google. Yep. Number two Google Maps. Number three, SEO, number four, pay per click? Oh, yeah. And I say, you know, I mean, who knows, but I like to differentiate, because there's actually, you know, four different specialties in our team. We have different specialists who focus on each of those four areas. Oh, wow. And, you know, that's the majority of what we do. And that's a lot before when we tried to do every industry, we had to do Facebook and Amazon stores and E commerce and affiliates. You know, now we're, we're focused on Laura's, or focus on the four parts of Google. And the fifth part is actually YouTube. Yeah. And that's

Dave Thomas: 00:21:54

great. That's why I love working with some man. It's like a Southern woman teacher, I think, what two years now and, and they're this the secret sauce behind my business development push, it's all tigers. And not only that, you and I'm speaking directly to you, and you have exceptional team employees. But you guys are very knowledgeable about what you do and very intentional. And so I'm very up to date on changing trends within the industry. And I tell you guys, we're speaking to you guys out there. This guy is one of the smartest guys I know, you know, hey, I may not know everything. I'm I'm pretty sharp in different areas. But I like to keep smarter guys around me.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:22:31

This guy go, man, even my mom. Awesome. You know, we wrap up with just a couple things on the 10 Golden Rules podcast. And we've had some great people over the years answer these questions. Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk Tim Westergren. Oh man under Pandora. Oh, Craig Newmark defender Craigslist. So you're very cool. You're on a line of greatness. Tell us what technology tools do you use for personal productivity or any apps you use?

Dave Thomas: 00:22:58

Yeah, yeah. So you know, for in house purposes. We use HubSpot. We do a lot of HubSpot sequences. A lot of our b2b Infinity Marketing comes out of HubSpot. It's a beast, it's a beast man, you can do almost anything. That's why and then obviously, Salesforce, on the sales side, very, very great for pipeline management. CRMs. And then, you know, as far as you know, the social I mean, you gotta have you gotta have your foot in the social game. You know, I live on LinkedIn, you know, Instagram, some stock, Twitter, Facebook. So Dave says

Jay Berkowitz: 00:23:30

b2b So yeah, LinkedIn is your I call it the social media for adults. Right? I love it, man. Give us some LinkedIn strategies. What's your average LinkedIn week look like?

Dave Thomas: 00:23:40

Yeah, so I kind of do motivational Mondays, Wednesday, wisdom, Wednesdays, I like to keep publishing content. Yeah. Cuz publishing content, you know, thoughtful leadership content. And also, I like to highlight things like this, like what we're doing. And you also publish a monthly newsletter that goes out some different articles you connect with people on LinkedIn. 100% Yeah. And you know, it's and you do consciously, like when you go back with every business card from the show and connect on LinkedIn. 100% It's, I think it's very, it's a disservice to take someone's time, time is precious, right? Return on time, and take their information and not give them the courtesy of a follow up. So many people do that. I've seen people take hearts. And as soon as that person walked away to open that thing up and drop, I'm like, come on, you know.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:24:29

He's not at the show next year, even though I know they're one and done. Yeah. And the next question Evany go to podcast YouTubes Who do you ascribe to booty like you know when it comes in your feed? You always want to watch it?

Dave Thomas: 00:24:42

Yeah, man. You know me I'm a man of God. So I'm a Joel Osteen guy that name Yeah, but I also do something some who's my guy who's going to carry the booth send the logs David God cuz you know he he'll keep you lined up a little bit as well. Yeah, first of all, they're good guys. Like you know, I follow your cell phone only They're, you know, I do a bunch of, you know, reading and things like that. And you know, just, you know, we both talked about traction. You know, you're not within our

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:09

companies. Yeah, we're doing us Entrepreneurial Operating System. And 24th We got an awesome panel. Yeah. Mike Morris Gerardo Escalona. Oh, beautiful Tom and myself. We're going to talk about EOS for law firms. Yeah. And if you missed it, I'm not sure when this podcast is coming up. can find it on our YouTube channel with Dave and we're up to about 300,000 views and yeah, absolutely blown up. So please come on over to YouTube. You can find a lot of great content. Last question.

Dave Thomas: 00:25:36

No injury mastermind. Let's not forget about Yeah, yeah, they're super solid. You were on that it was a great podcast. I'm actually going to be doing their show this year. In Scottsdale Arizona pin con. It's gonna be a phenomenal time. It's gonna be a rockstar time.

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:50

Yeah, Chris does a great job Chris Dreyer.

Dave Thomas: 00:25:52

Great job. Definitely tune into this podcast. Last question. How

Jay Berkowitz: 00:25:56

do people find you? By me?

Dave Thomas: 00:25:58

Hey, you from a number ways find me on LinkedIn, David, l. Thomas, comma, MBA, but also you can find me at Dave Dav at law tigers.com. And, yeah, it's I love to hear from you. I'm all about making people better and I love to get better myself. So reach out. And if you're a personal injury law firm, you're looking to diversify your practice within the motorcycle niche. I'm your guy. Give us a call. I'll let you know our gullibility and hey, let's see if we can make something work. Dave's

Jay Berkowitz: 00:26:29

awesome you guys. I don't have to tell you now if you if you watch this long day, thank you very much for doing this. Thanks for always good to hang with you.

Dave Thomas: 00:26:37

You're good guy. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Troy Lacher: 00:26:41

Thank you for listening to the 10 Golden Rules of internet marketing for law firms podcast. Please send questions and comments to podcast at 10 Golden rules.com That is podcast at t e n Golden rules.com.